Funny how Paul calls everyone out for wanting a spiritual gift not to build the church up but to build ourselves up. Good reminder that my gift is not truly my own but God through me for his kingdom
I think the concubine story was just to show how bad it was in Israel. It mirrors sodem and gemora in Genisis which God destroyed because of their evilness. It also shows how curpted the even the preasts had become too.
For the treatment of the concubine, one thing that was noted in the Wikipedia perspective is that while rape was considered an ok substitution for the man’s protection, it was evil in the eyes of God. It led to the massacre of many Benjamites to the point where the tribe had almost no survivors. Paul’s role of submission and voicelessness of women is hard for me to understand too. Wish I could get some clarification on that.
The overall goal of Paul’s letter to Corinth was to promote unity in the church. There were issues where women were taking their freedom in Christ as an excuse to cause conflict. This was Paul’s correction to that specific issue. That’s what context I was given for that passage specifically.
Reading “Without Rival” by Lisa Bevere and I’m not sure if this is to disprove or prove what she says about women speaking. So confusing. I thought God wanted us to share the gospel but this makes me think we are to simply be housewives learning from our husbands. Frustrating!
For a deeper look at 1 Corinthians 14, I highly recommend Kathy Keller’s essay/short book called “Jesus, Justice, and Gender Roles.” She gives some really great insights into this idea of women in the Church and compares this passages with several others throughout Scripture.
I had to read most of this in different translations: nkjv, NLT, amplified, and finally when I really didn’t get it, The Message.
AND THATS OKAY!! It’s digging deeper and that in itself God loves!!! ” let your roots grow down into Him and let your lives be built on Him” (Colossians 2:7)
Just a little encouragement, ladies!!
God bless!!
I recently finished a study on Judges done by Jen Wilkin from The Village Church and it really helped me understand what was going on throughout the book. In the book of Joshua, Israel is following the Lord and he is driving out their enemies out before them in miraculous ways. After the death of Joshua, there is severe spiritual deterioration that occurs with the Israelites throughout the book of Judges, as they turn from following God, no longer remember what He had done for them, and eventually everyone is doing what is right in his own eyes. The end of Judges is horrific, it shows the seriousness of sin and our inability to follow the Law, or even to remember God. It shows the depravity of the human heart and our desperate need for a Savior.
As for the 1 Cor passage, I’m not clear on a lot of that either, I especially have questions about the restrictions on women in the church. We’re going through this book at church now, so I’m looking forward to the week my pastor preaches on this passage!
God is always there but He cant do anything without us giving Him the permission to do so. Like we said before we always tend to go our way and sometime the pain and hardships are ways for us to learn and understand God. I notice that a lot of pain and hardship that we go through are because of the decision we made ourselves or because we tend to listen to the voice of others instead of God. Although it was painful for me to read this, I feel that the story has a great message. They could have ask God instead of deciding things on their own. Is important to remember that we should always ask God for wisdom and understanding. We should always put Him first and let Him guide us.
I think it’s important to note also that God chose to preserve the memory of this woman and the atrocities that happened to her in His Holy text. He cares about her.
1C 14:19 “Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue”. Interesting point. Paul points to the fact that speaking in church is to edify (or rebuke) other believers. That doesn’t happen if they can’t understand what is being said :)
As a follow up to what I posted earlier yesterday, I found comfort this morning in 1 Corinthians 14:33a “For God is not a God of confusion, but of peace.”
I’m trying to remind myself this morning that that is really true.
“banish from our minds forever the common but erroneous notion that justice and judgment characterize the God of Israel, while mercy and grace belong to the Lord of the Church. Actually there is in principle no difference between the Old Testament and the New.” ~ A. W. Tozer
I definitely think it’s easy for us to question why God doesn’t step in an directly change every sin. But we keep seeing that when the world allows or wills itself to be separate from God, we find ways to sin. I think God knows that constant obvious interference is not always effective with us. But Christ does make all things new, he does make good from the bad, he is our guide to goodness. Yes, until Jesus comes back we will be surrounded by brokenness, but we can be ushers
Of the kingdom. In our communities we can change things and bring love and understanding. I think that is a much more powerful way for God to work in us!
That was an intense reading to start the day. I am not feeling the usual peace and clarity after this mornings chapters. Praying The Lord will help my mind work through this reading and give me understanding of them.
This is tough reading for sure. It is so hard to see a generation lost in its “Everyone did what was right in his own eyes” actions. The depravity of man. I notice the word “everyone.” Even now people of God make awful choices when not walking in the Spirit. And I think that may also be the point. We are so blessed to see the whole story, the whole Bible. The people in Judges had no clue who their “savior” would be. What did “savior” even mean to them? A strong king to “save” them from the Romans? They had no idea he would “save” ALL people, from ALL sins, for ALL eternity. Even the religious leaders missed the signs when Jesus arrived on the scene. The Savior brought us the Holy Spirit to help us discern. Christ had to die, raise again, and then give us the Holy Spirit. It’s interesting to note, that Old Testament people didn’t have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them to help guide them.
Has anyone thought about the fact that this is happening every single day right now? This is how Isis treats women, they’re considered property, they’re used and abused in unspeakable ways. Radical Islam is real. I feel like this story in Judges is teaching us that there has always been an evil out there and separation from our Heavenly Father, the Savior of the world, the One who doesn’t require us to lay down our lives for Him but was sacrificed FOR us, is what allows it to exist. It’s hard to understand but our Redeemer makes no mistakes. His ways surpass all understanding but they are perfect.
Yes Jessi, the thought crossed my mind that these things do happen in our world today. They’re not recorded and read and studied like the Bible is but still today people do “what is right in their own eyes”. Part of me does wonder why God didn’t do something more drastic in Judges but then I have to ask too why doesn’t He do something now when our world is not much different from then. Like others have pointed out, it is Christ that made the difference. As Paul says in 1 Cor, such were some of us but we were washed and sanctified in Christ’s blood. It is only by His grace and I think that is what Judges is a pointing to, how evil and depraved humanity is and that it is only Christ who can save us from ourselves.
Exactly. We are the very reason God sent his perfect and only son to die on the cross. Some sin is just way harder to understand, but we’re not called to understand, we’re called to love (no other chapter defines the importance of love better than Corinthians) and trust our Father who works all things for good…beyond our understanding.
“Everyone did what was right in his own eyes” is repeated a few times in judges. Read a good commentary that our own eyes are not sufficient for defining sin. What God sees as sin is sin, regardless of what we feel or perceive or the culture agrees on. The Israelites were also deceived by sin. In “their own eyes” there was nothing wrong with what they were doing because they were out of touch with God.
thank you, Annemarie! It is so true, and so easy to fall into in a culture of permissibility and “tolerance”. We should not tolerate sin, regardless of what this around us are saying.
I too feel very confused by today’s readings. I know everything is included in the Bible for a reason, but this story in Judges is heartbreaking. Then followed with NT chapter saying women shouldn’t talk in church. I want to know the word, and be informed, and study it but sometimes reading things like this confuse me all the more.
The Bible can be confusing at times, but if we understood everything in it we wouldn’t need God. As for the women being silent in church in 1 Cor. 14, my study notes list several possible reasons why Paul said it, but the overall idea seems to be that of maintaining an attitude of respect during worship.
My husband has explained to me that the passage about women in church refers to a common pagan ritual at the time where women would stand in the temple and prophesy. He thinks that this call for women to be silent was an attempt to separate the Christians from the Pagan worshippers. Hope this helps a little!
I would love a further explanation in scripture too. Reading the bible has really made me feel that women are looked at as less worthy and I need some encouragement that we are all equally children of God and are all worth his love, man or woman.
Paul says similar things in other passages, but you must remember that this is a letter to a specific church. There are other instances where Paul left women in charge of congregations. Read up on Phoebe! We are made in Gods image.
I’m sorry but WTF! This poor woman was gang raped to death on the doorstep of this man’s house, and everyone is just standing around like a bunch of a**holes waiting for somebody else to take care of it?!???!!!!
And these people are LESS evil than the people who drowned back in the story of Noah?
I feel sick. This is just… I really cannot even with Judges. What the hell, God?
Me again. I just finished Judges. I do not understand why God wouldn’t step in. Why he wouldn’t just do another Moses. Somebody to just stop these stupid, senseless slaughters. I hated Judges and it has left a really terrible taste in my mouth.
How can Esther, which never mentions God, feel so full of God, and Judges feel so dirty and devoid of anything even halfway decent? This was disgusting, and I really don’t understand God. I feel really, really angry right now.
Hi Lauren ,
I too felt confused after portions of this reading. It’s easy for us to point our fingers at God and blame Him for the senseless actions of mankind. It’s easier to question God’s actions than the actions of sinful man. We must remember though- God did do something! He sent us our precious savior, Jesus. He is our only hope in escaping the sins of this fallen world. One thing that helps me process difficult portions of scripture is realizing that God could have kept these things from us… But he didn’t… And He is not a God of confusion… But of PEACE. He doesn’t want me confused, so when I am, I lay it at His feet. I must take my concerns to Him. He is (and will always be) the only One who can shed true light on His written word. As hard as it can be to read through the context of certain chapters, it does bring some hope knowing that God isn’t sugar coating anything. He is truth even when I prefer a lie. Without Him, the evil of the world prevails in destruction. These chapters show this clearly. He recorded it for a reason and my prayer is that we will lay our cares at His feet. I am praying for the needed wisdom to discern difficult things. Wisdom to trust in the mighty hand of God. And wisdom to humble myself. We must admit that without God’s unrelenting grace we cannot understand even the clearest of scriptures. And if we truly seek Him and ask for clarity (not to criticize Him but to grow in Him) it will be that same grace that takes this confusion to the peace He promises.
Amen! He is so good. And throughout judge we see that God does directly step with judges to help rule the Israelites. But sin happens still. Jesus is stronger than Samson, who was weakened by his hair, and stronger than the men in these chapters who choose violence for retribution. Jesus chose to die to save us!
I don’t understand why these bad things happen either. But I know God grieves and doesn’t want these things to happen. Our sinful nature makes us do horrible things
The whole point of the book of judges is to point out the depravity of people and God’s unfathomable mercy in showing grace to wicked people like us. It reminds us what it looks like when people do what seems right in their own eyes . Judges just shows the complete spiral downward when we do things in our own way.
Yeah, Judges is really sick. I think that’s the point, especially with the last verse to point out–look this is what happens when people go their own way! The last two chapters, the Israelites halfheartedly asking God what to do…then with the last chapters decide to not consult God at all and go off to steal wives, essentially raping them. They are more concerned with finding a loophole around a vow than with the treatment of their own women. Contrasted with how women are treated in Ruth. And when I think of it in relation to myself, am I as depraved as these people? No! But I am CONSTANTLY going my own way, thinking I know better than my creator. Ultimately, what we get in exchange for sin is death as Romans says and Judges just super highlights that. As for why God didn’t step in, that’s something that I continue to ask myself even with current day issues like the earthquake in Nepal etc. I do know God is there but it’s really hard.
This comment was exactly what I needed to read in response – thank you, Amy. This passage really kinda ruined my day yesterday and I spent most of it half-praying, half-ranting at God.
It’s also made me question if there are things I do as a Christian that I think are OK because of our cultural postmodern morality (like Micah with the idol). Difficult.
Honestly? Yes. I was (and remain, though less intensely than yesterday) horrified.
God already knew what I was thinking. I imagine he’s heard it all before. There are times, and for me, Judges 19 was one of them, when “I don’t understand this” is NOT enough to express how I feel. I always end up on the side of honesty. I expressed how I felt, it was released, and now it is no longer festering inside me, growing into a bigger mass of confusion and disgust.
Please be mindful of how you judge other people. You’ve offered no consolation or empathy to a sister in response to what was clearly a very troubling passage, and instead made a passive aggressive statement with regards to language and said nothing else.
I’m not up on an altar preaching a sermon – I was reacting to a passage that made me feel ill that a people of God could behave with such depravity.
Mind your judgements in future. What if I was someone not as committed to the family of God? What if your comment lay heavily in my heart enough to make me question if God would want to hear my thoughts, since his one of his people obviously did not?
I’m NOT trying to start a flame war or trolling, and I believe we are sisters in Christ and I am sorry that the language I used has obviously upset you, but I think that when someone is very upset and clearly having trouble with something, a swear word and an abbreviation isn’t the highest priority here.
I am sorry I have upset you, sister. Please understand that I was extremely upset and troubled by this.
These Chapters in Judges are breaking my heart… I see the nature of humanity, the evil in human’s hearts… it’s terrifying! :( .. i remember the same scenario in Genesis before God competely destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah… sexual immorality, hedious crimes committed… no matter how many times God starts over with humanity by destroying a sinful generation and start building a new one… eventually, they (we) wander away from God and follow our own ways again… Israel has gone too far (and so is our generation!) and the cycle goes on and on… Indeed, the entire Bible points to Jesus! This is why we need a Savior! Because our human nature will always fail! Thank You God for sending Jesus to be the light in this fallen, dark world!
Oh misce, that is exactly what was on my heart to write. Such a comforting joy to read all the words of you ladies. Let us press on to see our Saviour as the hope and peace infusing each situation no matter how dreadful, perhaps, especially when dreadful. It is an uncanny resemblance to the actions and cruelty and violent evils of Sodom & Gommoreh and behold the Angel of the Lord went Himself down into that pit, but do you think any were righteous enough (placing their very lives and all faith in the one true God) to spare in this story in Judges?! The state of our nation and the heartbeat that drives decisions and motives is too often from the place that opposes our Creator and stands firm in folly, stubborn in sin. But there is yet hope is there not sweet sisters! In Jesus Christ our Redeemer! Thankful to be reading alongside you gals.
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40But all things should be done decently and in order.
12 so with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
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Funny how Paul calls everyone out for wanting a spiritual gift not to build the church up but to build ourselves up. Good reminder that my gift is not truly my own but God through me for his kingdom
The treatment of the concubine as well as Paul’s teaching that women shouldn’t speak in church…all a bit discouraging and hard to understand.
I think the concubine story was just to show how bad it was in Israel. It mirrors sodem and gemora in Genisis which God destroyed because of their evilness. It also shows how curpted the even the preasts had become too.
For the treatment of the concubine, one thing that was noted in the Wikipedia perspective is that while rape was considered an ok substitution for the man’s protection, it was evil in the eyes of God. It led to the massacre of many Benjamites to the point where the tribe had almost no survivors. Paul’s role of submission and voicelessness of women is hard for me to understand too. Wish I could get some clarification on that.
The overall goal of Paul’s letter to Corinth was to promote unity in the church. There were issues where women were taking their freedom in Christ as an excuse to cause conflict. This was Paul’s correction to that specific issue. That’s what context I was given for that passage specifically.
Hard readings to understand in Judges!
33For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.-ellie
Reading “Without Rival” by Lisa Bevere and I’m not sure if this is to disprove or prove what she says about women speaking. So confusing. I thought God wanted us to share the gospel but this makes me think we are to simply be housewives learning from our husbands. Frustrating!
For a deeper look at 1 Corinthians 14, I highly recommend Kathy Keller’s essay/short book called “Jesus, Justice, and Gender Roles.” She gives some really great insights into this idea of women in the Church and compares this passages with several others throughout Scripture.
❤ thanks!
Judges 19 is Fear.png
I wish I understood this statement by Megan. Can anyone help me?
I think there is supposed to be an attachment- maybe a picture?
I really need some help with both of these passages, ladies. Some tough stuff today.
If you’re talking about the 1 Corinthians 14:3,4,5…. Try looking it up in other translations. The Message cleared it up for me❤️
I had to read most of this in different translations: nkjv, NLT, amplified, and finally when I really didn’t get it, The Message.
AND THATS OKAY!! It’s digging deeper and that in itself God loves!!! ” let your roots grow down into Him and let your lives be built on Him” (Colossians 2:7)
Just a little encouragement, ladies!!
God bless!!
I recently finished a study on Judges done by Jen Wilkin from The Village Church and it really helped me understand what was going on throughout the book. In the book of Joshua, Israel is following the Lord and he is driving out their enemies out before them in miraculous ways. After the death of Joshua, there is severe spiritual deterioration that occurs with the Israelites throughout the book of Judges, as they turn from following God, no longer remember what He had done for them, and eventually everyone is doing what is right in his own eyes. The end of Judges is horrific, it shows the seriousness of sin and our inability to follow the Law, or even to remember God. It shows the depravity of the human heart and our desperate need for a Savior.
As for the 1 Cor passage, I’m not clear on a lot of that either, I especially have questions about the restrictions on women in the church. We’re going through this book at church now, so I’m looking forward to the week my pastor preaches on this passage!
God is always there but He cant do anything without us giving Him the permission to do so. Like we said before we always tend to go our way and sometime the pain and hardships are ways for us to learn and understand God. I notice that a lot of pain and hardship that we go through are because of the decision we made ourselves or because we tend to listen to the voice of others instead of God. Although it was painful for me to read this, I feel that the story has a great message. They could have ask God instead of deciding things on their own. Is important to remember that we should always ask God for wisdom and understanding. We should always put Him first and let Him guide us.
I think it’s important to note also that God chose to preserve the memory of this woman and the atrocities that happened to her in His Holy text. He cares about her.
I really like this thought. It’s true <3
1C 14:19 “Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue”. Interesting point. Paul points to the fact that speaking in church is to edify (or rebuke) other believers. That doesn’t happen if they can’t understand what is being said :)
As a follow up to what I posted earlier yesterday, I found comfort this morning in 1 Corinthians 14:33a “For God is not a God of confusion, but of peace.”
I’m trying to remind myself this morning that that is really true.
Praise God for sending comfort in our times of trouble!
Amen, Lauren! In addition, He knows our hearts as well…( 1 Samuel 16:7, Hebrews 4:12-13)
“banish from our minds forever the common but erroneous notion that justice and judgment characterize the God of Israel, while mercy and grace belong to the Lord of the Church. Actually there is in principle no difference between the Old Testament and the New.” ~ A. W. Tozer
I’d just like to point out that I really appreciate all of you women who comment and help make the reading more understandable.. It’s very helpful!
I definitely think it’s easy for us to question why God doesn’t step in an directly change every sin. But we keep seeing that when the world allows or wills itself to be separate from God, we find ways to sin. I think God knows that constant obvious interference is not always effective with us. But Christ does make all things new, he does make good from the bad, he is our guide to goodness. Yes, until Jesus comes back we will be surrounded by brokenness, but we can be ushers
Of the kingdom. In our communities we can change things and bring love and understanding. I think that is a much more powerful way for God to work in us!
That was an intense reading to start the day. I am not feeling the usual peace and clarity after this mornings chapters. Praying The Lord will help my mind work through this reading and give me understanding of them.
Agreed!
This is tough reading for sure. It is so hard to see a generation lost in its “Everyone did what was right in his own eyes” actions. The depravity of man. I notice the word “everyone.” Even now people of God make awful choices when not walking in the Spirit. And I think that may also be the point. We are so blessed to see the whole story, the whole Bible. The people in Judges had no clue who their “savior” would be. What did “savior” even mean to them? A strong king to “save” them from the Romans? They had no idea he would “save” ALL people, from ALL sins, for ALL eternity. Even the religious leaders missed the signs when Jesus arrived on the scene. The Savior brought us the Holy Spirit to help us discern. Christ had to die, raise again, and then give us the Holy Spirit. It’s interesting to note, that Old Testament people didn’t have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them to help guide them.
Has anyone thought about the fact that this is happening every single day right now? This is how Isis treats women, they’re considered property, they’re used and abused in unspeakable ways. Radical Islam is real. I feel like this story in Judges is teaching us that there has always been an evil out there and separation from our Heavenly Father, the Savior of the world, the One who doesn’t require us to lay down our lives for Him but was sacrificed FOR us, is what allows it to exist. It’s hard to understand but our Redeemer makes no mistakes. His ways surpass all understanding but they are perfect.
Yes Jessi, the thought crossed my mind that these things do happen in our world today. They’re not recorded and read and studied like the Bible is but still today people do “what is right in their own eyes”. Part of me does wonder why God didn’t do something more drastic in Judges but then I have to ask too why doesn’t He do something now when our world is not much different from then. Like others have pointed out, it is Christ that made the difference. As Paul says in 1 Cor, such were some of us but we were washed and sanctified in Christ’s blood. It is only by His grace and I think that is what Judges is a pointing to, how evil and depraved humanity is and that it is only Christ who can save us from ourselves.
Exactly. We are the very reason God sent his perfect and only son to die on the cross. Some sin is just way harder to understand, but we’re not called to understand, we’re called to love (no other chapter defines the importance of love better than Corinthians) and trust our Father who works all things for good…beyond our understanding.
“Everyone did what was right in his own eyes” is repeated a few times in judges. Read a good commentary that our own eyes are not sufficient for defining sin. What God sees as sin is sin, regardless of what we feel or perceive or the culture agrees on. The Israelites were also deceived by sin. In “their own eyes” there was nothing wrong with what they were doing because they were out of touch with God.
Well said.
thank you, Annemarie! It is so true, and so easy to fall into in a culture of permissibility and “tolerance”. We should not tolerate sin, regardless of what this around us are saying.
Thank you for this comment. Very well said.
I too feel very confused by today’s readings. I know everything is included in the Bible for a reason, but this story in Judges is heartbreaking. Then followed with NT chapter saying women shouldn’t talk in church. I want to know the word, and be informed, and study it but sometimes reading things like this confuse me all the more.
The Bible can be confusing at times, but if we understood everything in it we wouldn’t need God. As for the women being silent in church in 1 Cor. 14, my study notes list several possible reasons why Paul said it, but the overall idea seems to be that of maintaining an attitude of respect during worship.
I agree! Sometimes I feel like the more I try to learn, the more confused I get!
Exactly!
My husband has explained to me that the passage about women in church refers to a common pagan ritual at the time where women would stand in the temple and prophesy. He thinks that this call for women to be silent was an attempt to separate the Christians from the Pagan worshippers. Hope this helps a little!
Ruth, do you husband have a Scripture, or cultural reference so I can study this more? Thanks!
I would love a further explanation in scripture too. Reading the bible has really made me feel that women are looked at as less worthy and I need some encouragement that we are all equally children of God and are all worth his love, man or woman.
Paul says similar things in other passages, but you must remember that this is a letter to a specific church. There are other instances where Paul left women in charge of congregations. Read up on Phoebe! We are made in Gods image.
Some raw, honest thoughts here:
I’m sorry but WTF! This poor woman was gang raped to death on the doorstep of this man’s house, and everyone is just standing around like a bunch of a**holes waiting for somebody else to take care of it?!???!!!!
And these people are LESS evil than the people who drowned back in the story of Noah?
I feel sick. This is just… I really cannot even with Judges. What the hell, God?
And lest I gloss over it, her husband? Lover? Dude just cuts her up into pieces????!??!??
Me again. I just finished Judges. I do not understand why God wouldn’t step in. Why he wouldn’t just do another Moses. Somebody to just stop these stupid, senseless slaughters. I hated Judges and it has left a really terrible taste in my mouth.
How can Esther, which never mentions God, feel so full of God, and Judges feel so dirty and devoid of anything even halfway decent? This was disgusting, and I really don’t understand God. I feel really, really angry right now.
Hi Lauren ,
I too felt confused after portions of this reading. It’s easy for us to point our fingers at God and blame Him for the senseless actions of mankind. It’s easier to question God’s actions than the actions of sinful man. We must remember though- God did do something! He sent us our precious savior, Jesus. He is our only hope in escaping the sins of this fallen world. One thing that helps me process difficult portions of scripture is realizing that God could have kept these things from us… But he didn’t… And He is not a God of confusion… But of PEACE. He doesn’t want me confused, so when I am, I lay it at His feet. I must take my concerns to Him. He is (and will always be) the only One who can shed true light on His written word. As hard as it can be to read through the context of certain chapters, it does bring some hope knowing that God isn’t sugar coating anything. He is truth even when I prefer a lie. Without Him, the evil of the world prevails in destruction. These chapters show this clearly. He recorded it for a reason and my prayer is that we will lay our cares at His feet. I am praying for the needed wisdom to discern difficult things. Wisdom to trust in the mighty hand of God. And wisdom to humble myself. We must admit that without God’s unrelenting grace we cannot understand even the clearest of scriptures. And if we truly seek Him and ask for clarity (not to criticize Him but to grow in Him) it will be that same grace that takes this confusion to the peace He promises.
I am praying that He will shed light on us all :)
<3
Amen! He is so good. And throughout judge we see that God does directly step with judges to help rule the Israelites. But sin happens still. Jesus is stronger than Samson, who was weakened by his hair, and stronger than the men in these chapters who choose violence for retribution. Jesus chose to die to save us!
What love the Savior has for us!
Amen!
Amen to your insight Hollee!
I don’t understand why these bad things happen either. But I know God grieves and doesn’t want these things to happen. Our sinful nature makes us do horrible things
The whole point of the book of judges is to point out the depravity of people and God’s unfathomable mercy in showing grace to wicked people like us. It reminds us what it looks like when people do what seems right in their own eyes . Judges just shows the complete spiral downward when we do things in our own way.
Yeah, Judges is really sick. I think that’s the point, especially with the last verse to point out–look this is what happens when people go their own way! The last two chapters, the Israelites halfheartedly asking God what to do…then with the last chapters decide to not consult God at all and go off to steal wives, essentially raping them. They are more concerned with finding a loophole around a vow than with the treatment of their own women. Contrasted with how women are treated in Ruth. And when I think of it in relation to myself, am I as depraved as these people? No! But I am CONSTANTLY going my own way, thinking I know better than my creator. Ultimately, what we get in exchange for sin is death as Romans says and Judges just super highlights that. As for why God didn’t step in, that’s something that I continue to ask myself even with current day issues like the earthquake in Nepal etc. I do know God is there but it’s really hard.
This comment was exactly what I needed to read in response – thank you, Amy. This passage really kinda ruined my day yesterday and I spent most of it half-praying, half-ranting at God.
It’s also made me question if there are things I do as a Christian that I think are OK because of our cultural postmodern morality (like Micah with the idol). Difficult.
Thank you! Great perspective
Woo hoo. Language necessary?
Honestly? Yes. I was (and remain, though less intensely than yesterday) horrified.
God already knew what I was thinking. I imagine he’s heard it all before. There are times, and for me, Judges 19 was one of them, when “I don’t understand this” is NOT enough to express how I feel. I always end up on the side of honesty. I expressed how I felt, it was released, and now it is no longer festering inside me, growing into a bigger mass of confusion and disgust.
Please be mindful of how you judge other people. You’ve offered no consolation or empathy to a sister in response to what was clearly a very troubling passage, and instead made a passive aggressive statement with regards to language and said nothing else.
I’m not up on an altar preaching a sermon – I was reacting to a passage that made me feel ill that a people of God could behave with such depravity.
Mind your judgements in future. What if I was someone not as committed to the family of God? What if your comment lay heavily in my heart enough to make me question if God would want to hear my thoughts, since his one of his people obviously did not?
I’m NOT trying to start a flame war or trolling, and I believe we are sisters in Christ and I am sorry that the language I used has obviously upset you, but I think that when someone is very upset and clearly having trouble with something, a swear word and an abbreviation isn’t the highest priority here.
I am sorry I have upset you, sister. Please understand that I was extremely upset and troubled by this.
I completely agree.
Love your honesty!!!!
❤️
These Chapters in Judges are breaking my heart… I see the nature of humanity, the evil in human’s hearts… it’s terrifying! :( .. i remember the same scenario in Genesis before God competely destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah… sexual immorality, hedious crimes committed… no matter how many times God starts over with humanity by destroying a sinful generation and start building a new one… eventually, they (we) wander away from God and follow our own ways again… Israel has gone too far (and so is our generation!) and the cycle goes on and on… Indeed, the entire Bible points to Jesus! This is why we need a Savior! Because our human nature will always fail! Thank You God for sending Jesus to be the light in this fallen, dark world!
Well said and amen!
Oh misce, that is exactly what was on my heart to write. Such a comforting joy to read all the words of you ladies. Let us press on to see our Saviour as the hope and peace infusing each situation no matter how dreadful, perhaps, especially when dreadful. It is an uncanny resemblance to the actions and cruelty and violent evils of Sodom & Gommoreh and behold the Angel of the Lord went Himself down into that pit, but do you think any were righteous enough (placing their very lives and all faith in the one true God) to spare in this story in Judges?! The state of our nation and the heartbeat that drives decisions and motives is too often from the place that opposes our Creator and stands firm in folly, stubborn in sin. But there is yet hope is there not sweet sisters! In Jesus Christ our Redeemer! Thankful to be reading alongside you gals.